Pulling no punches: Rove, Dean debate current issues before rowdy ASU crowd
By Kyle Daly March 7, 2010 at 7:05 pm 
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Fight Night: Karl Rove (left) and Howard Dean (right) debate at ASU Gammage on the Tempe campus Saturday night, taking on the issues of health care reform, the war in Iraq and illegal immigration (Photo by Scott Stuk).
If politics were a contact sport, Howard Dean and Karl Rove might have been bruised and bloodied coming off the ASU Gammage stage Saturday night.
Driven by the crowd’s boos, cheers and occasional derogatory outbursts, Rove, the former deputy chief of staff for the Bush administration, and Dean, the former chairman of the Democratic National Committee, squared off in a debate that covered contentious issues like the war in Iraq, health care and illegal immigration.
The Tempe campus debate, organized by the Undergraduate Student Government, was held before a packed house of ASU students and local residents. USG President Brendan O’Kelly said the event almost sold out at nearly 2,800 tickets.
Mimicking their positions on the political spectrum, Rove viewed the audience from the right side of the stage and Dean stood behind his podium on the left.
Rove summed up the difference between the two politicians in a humorous answer to the final question of the night on whether common ground existed between them.
“He’s a hopeful idealist, and I’m a practical guy,” Rove said.
Iraq war
The gloves came off early in the fight as the two political figures discussed the Iraq war and the reasons behind its beginning.
Debate moderator Jose Cardenas, senior vice president and general counsel of ASU, was interrupted by an audience member while asking Rove a question about Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction.
“War criminal Rove, you should be arrested,” the audience member shouted.
After a brief pause, Rove responded to the outcry: “Says you and what international body?”
Interaction with riled audience members then became common throughout the evening.
Rove said the Bush administration made a mistake by not facing Democratic critics who said Bush lied about Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction.
Providing quotes from the president and vice president, Rove asked the audience whether it was wrong for the two to say the former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein had these weapons.
Roars of “yes” erupted in the auditorium.
Rove responded he had just quoted President Bill Clinton and Vice President Al Gore.
“Of the 110 Democrats who voted for the use of [military force] in Iraq, 67 of them on the floors of the United States Congress said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction,” he said.
Dean responded that “lying” is a very strong word, and to lie would mean the person knew the opposite was true.
“I think somebody lied,” Dean said. “I don’t know if it was George Bush or if Dick Cheney withheld information from the President of the United States … but somebody did not tell the truth to the American people about why we went into Iraq.”
In 2004, Dean ran for the Democratic presidential nomination on an anti-Iraq war platform.
Dean said he does believe in using military force when necessary, but the Iraq war was a different story.
“I do not believe in sending American troops to war without telling the truth to their parents about where they’re going,” he said.
Health care
The two political figures then switched gears to the current health care debate.
“I don’t think there are a whole lot of people in the country that believe that everybody shouldn’t have health insurance,” Dean said. “The question is, ‘How are we going to get to it?’”
He said there are two ways: through the private sector and through the public sector. Dean said he is in favor of combining both ways.
“I support [President Barack Obama’s] bill,” he said. “[But] I don’t like the president’s bill all that much because I think the existing system doesn’t work very well.”
Rove responded that America does need health care reform, but this is not the bill that should do it.
About 10 million of the uninsured in America are supposedly illegal or legal immigrants, he said.
“I’m pro-immigration, but I don’t think the American taxpayer ought to be picking up the tab for [illegal immigrants],” Rove said.
Illegal immigration
The illegal immigration comments brought Cardenas to his next question — what the political figures thought about illegal immigration reform.
Rove said the problem needs to be solved by increasing border security and having temporary worker programs.
“Citizenship is one of the most valuable things that we as Americans have,” he said. “And we ought to make sure that we do not undermine it in the future.”
Dean agreed with Rove that the borders need to be tightened, but said people already in this country who have proven they can be good citizens should have a chance at legalization.“If somebody gets to be in the top half of their class [or] top quarter of their class in an American high school, they should deserve credit for that, not punishment,” he said.
An independent’s scorecard
Political science senior Joe Howard, a registered independent, said he found himself agreeing with both Rove and Dean on different issues.
On health care, he found himself siding with Dean, Howard said.
“I think that we ought to extend coverage,” he said. He believed that Rove had made a mistake with the numbers he had presented to back up his arguments.
But Howard, whose cousin served in Iraq, said on military issues, he sided more with Rove.
“I’m kind of a supporter of the democratic peace theory,” he said.
The theory holds that democratic countries rarely go to war with one another, and is often used to justify spreading democracies to other countries.
On the issue of Iraq, Howard agreed with Rove’s statements on Saddam Hussein.
“The world’s safer without him,” he said.
Reach the reporter at kjdaly@asu.edu
Categories: Featured News Politics Spotlight Tempe
Tags: Howard Dean Karl Rove Video
[...] Saturday evening, I attended a debate between the senior adviser to President George W. Bush, Karl Rove, and the former chairman of the [...]
Politicians have a habit of bypassing the law that is firmly in place, if its not beneficial to those who insure their large campaign contributions or some other method of secret payment. Rep. Gabrielle Gifford (D-AZ) is obviously trying to uproot E-Verify with yet another program called NEVA. We must not get distracted by some other illegal alien enforcement, as in the future it to will be impaired by another program and another. Then–NOTHING–gets done. Homeland Security and ICE should work with what has progressed and that is E-verify. Critics are brought and paid for, by the opponents of any enforcement project. Likewise an example will be pharmaceutical companies who pay specialists to offer astounding testament of some wonderful drug, only to find later its has terrible side effects. Everything has its price specially in this capitalist society, where the ordinary working man and womens interests come last. That's why states like California that refuses to immunize itself against the invasion and need budgetary stewards like Steve Poizner, as a new governor who promises to fight back against supporting illegal alien families public entitlements
You only have to look at the wilting Health Care reform? Bombarded as we are by negative advertising. France, a socialist republic has a wonderful health care system and relatives of mine who live there will heartily agree of it great benefits. In America GIANT INSURANCE COMPANIES, AND WALL STREET ARE KING. Anybody can be brought in many cases, just as companies who have been intimidated or the psychological approach of imprinting regular people with some form of indoctrinations. Far as many bloggers are concerned, hundreds of rural and independent newspapers acknowledge E-Verify works? WE THE PATRIOTIC AMERICAN PEOPLE MUST NOT LET THE CRITICS OR THE WIDE OPEN BORDER ORGANIZATIONS, TRY TO ADJUST YOUR OPINION OF E-VERIFY. SOON DOCUMENT FRAUD WILL BE A THING OF THE PAST. DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT E-VERIFY IS GOING TO REMAIN IN STASIS? MANY NEW TOOLS ARE GOING TO BE ADDED AND ILLEGAL WORKERS WILL BE REMOVED BY ATTRITION.
A comment from a business human resources states:
Comment:
“I have used E-Verify for several years, and only once have I encountered this event, and it was quickly resolved due to the person whose identity was stolen stepping forward to correct earnings report errors. E-Verify works better than any other mechanism available. Opponents are still striving to discredit its value and accuracy. For identity theft to get past E-Verify, it has to involve a complete theft. (Name, DOB and SSN) Just getting a name and SSN will not suffice. I would gladly welcome a requirement for photo match,(which is being introduced shortly) which already happens for non-citizens using an immigration card or passport as their submitted documents. As an employer, if E-Verify has no other value, it provides the presumption of not “knowingly” employing an illegal, which is a priceless protection for employers.”
Illegal immigration is–EVERY AMERICAN WORKERS–responsibility and we should keep up a repetitious bombardment on every state and federal Senator and Representative at 202-224-3121 to enforce every law. IT IS OUR DUTY TO REPORT SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY AT YOUR WORK PLACE OR ANYTHING YOU SEE AND HEAR. 15 million US citizens and legal residents are jobless, with low income workers mainly at risk. The Internet is convinced their are 8 million illegal workers who have taken the the jobs of the legitimate workforce. EVEN SO THESE PEOPLE BROKE THE LAW AND ITS OUR OBLIGATION AND RIGHT TO REMOVE THEM.Other statistics indicate Washington is still importing a million plus semi-skilled workers yearly.
In addition Border patrol has chillingly estimated that only 1 in 10 illegal entrants gets caught at the border. THIS CONCLUSION OF 20 TO 30 MILLION ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT FAMILIES HAVE SETTLED HERE AND IT IS AN ONGOING RISK TO OUR WELFARE ENTITLEMENT SYSTEM. We cannot afford to regress on E-Verify or any other enforcement program such as 287 (g) local police alien detainment, ICE raids and the REAL ID and SAVE ACT. We must also impose restrictions on this demented Birthright citizen law?
Don't be sidetracked by Sen.Harry Reid, Speaker Pelosi, Sen. Chuck Schumer and other equally insistent on another Comprehensive Immigration reform. ITS JUST ANOTHER WAY OF UNDERHANDINGLY SANITIZING ANOTHER AMNESTY, WHERE AMERICANS WILL BE EVEN MORE EXPECTED TO SUPPORT UNCOUNTABLE NUMBERS OF NEWLY LEGITIMIZED IMMIGRANTS. It's almost unobtainable now with all states, but border states like Sanctuary California and even Texas and Arizona in a wretched financial positions pandering to illegal immigrants in hundreds of billions of dollars in welfare. E-Verify must be guaranteed to be improved, permanent and completely funded. Years of neglect by politicians has caused this terrible situation, with a poorly built border fence, easy movement of people who have overstayed US entry visas.
Our nation is being invaded and colonized. As is our duty, We the People will resist.
The cost to the American people WOULD BUY A COUNTRY, just as the Overpopulation growth we will inherit in 2040.. Read the truth about corruption and the illegal immigration occupation of our country at NUMBERSUSA, JUDICIALWATCH, IMMIGRATIONBUZZ, RIGHTSIDENEWS & DIRECTORBLUE. Copy and Paste No Copyright. Get the truth to THE PEOPLE! ONE FLAG, ONE LANGUAGE. LEARN WHO YOUR ENEMY IS IN WASHINGTON?
Hear for yourself — in Howard Dean’s own words — how he wants Socialism in America: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UScQ1lqCSmQ